Poor Man's Poker Rules

curtmack
  1. Poor Man's Poker Rules Card Game
  2. Poor Man's Poker Rules Against
  3. Poor Man's Poker Rules Board Game
  4. Poor Man's Poker Rules How To Play
  • Poker traditionally has to be played with one deck. When you have more than one deck, the entire face of the game changes - more hands become possible, the probability of some hands changes drastically, and so on. To demonstrate this, I decided to analyze poker with two decks of cards. As I calculate it, this is the correct ranking of hands.
  • Thomas Jefferson’s, “Rules of Etiquette”, and Benjamin Franklin’s popular Poor Man’s Almanac, were written to regulate their conduct in life. To quote Benjamin Franklin, “Eat not to dullness; drink not to elevation.” Emily Post might be considered the Mother, “Maven of Manners!” She.

Score Entertainment recently released a Fruits Basket card game that contains a set of rules to Daifugō (in addition to an original game developed by Score). In volume 6 of Ouran High School Host Club, Haruhi Fujioka and Suoh Tamaki (very poor man and poor man, respectively) were made to obey Kyoya Ootori (rich man) after a game of Daifugō. Standard trick rules apply in the game. Once the first card is played, players must play that suit if they have one, and the highest card wins. If they don't have that suit but have a trump card in hand, they must reveal their trump and play a trump card.

I was very bored today.
Poker traditionally has to be played with one deck. When you have more than one deck, the entire face of the game changes - more hands become possible, the probability of some hands changes drastically, and so on.
To demonstrate this, I decided to analyze poker with two decks of cards. As I calculate it, this is the correct ranking of hands:
Royal flush
Five of a kind
Straight flush
Flush with two pair
Four of a kind
Flush with one pair
Flush with no pairs (1)
Full house
Unflushed straight
Three of a kind
Two pair
One pair
High card
Note 1: You could, if you liked, join a flush with one pair and a flush with no pairs. Then, a full house would beat them. Flush with two pair is rare enough that it should stay separate, though.
All ties are handled in the same way they would be in normal poker.
Some notes:
  • I tried to stick to the framework of basic poker hands as best I could. Because of this, five of a kind and flushes with pairs seemed like necessary additions. You could add all kinds of other spiffy hands if you wanted to (i.e. does having a suited pair make it better?), but that's beyond the point of my analysis.
  • The Royal flush being top dog seemed like something players would expect, so I included it. If you preferred, you could consider the Royal to be a straight flush, with five of a kind being better. As long as the Royal flush is considered separately, however, it wins: there are 128 Royals and only 728 fives-of-a-kind.
  • With five decks, the Royal flush gets dethroned as the best hand, because a flushed five of a kind (with only 52 possibilities) would be king. I'm not sure how adding more decks would affect this, however.

For the curious (and peer review), here are my actual calculations for each hand. 'C' means combinations, e.g. 8C3 is the number of combinations for drawing 3 items out of a list of 8, derived from the formula nCr = n! / ( (n-r)! * r! )
Edit: I forgot to account for flushed vs. unflushed pairs. Embarrassing! The new numbers are correct.
Royal flush:
4 different suits to flush in
2 different ways of getting each card in the royal flush
2
2
2
2
128 different Royal flushes
Five of a kind:
13 different ranks
8C5=56 different ways of getting five cards of that rankPoor Man
728 different fives-of-a-kind
Straight flush:
4 different suits to flush in
9 different high cards (since Ace high gives royal flush)
2 different ways of getting each card in that particular straight flush
2
2
2
2
1172 different straight flushes
Flush with two pair:
4 different suits to flush in
13C2=78 combinations of ranks for pairs
11 different ranks for fifth card
1 combination for first pair in suit
1 combination for second pair in suit
2 cards possible for fifth card in given rank
6884 different flushes with two pair
Four of a kind:
13 different ranks for four-of-a-kind
12 different ranks for fifth card
8C4=70 combinations for four-of-a-kind
8 different cards of rank for fifth card
87360 different fours-of-a-kind
Flush with one pair:
4 different suits to flush in
13 different ranks for pair
12C3=220 combinations of ranks for extra cards
1 combination for pairRules
2 ways of getting each extra card in chosen rank and suit
2
2
91520 different flushes with one pair
Flush with no pairs:
4 different suits to flush in
13C5=1287 combinations of ranks for five cards
2 ways of getting each card in chosen rank and suit
2
2
2
2
164738 different flushes with no pairs, including straight flushes
Subtract 1172 straight flushes
163566 different flushes with no pairs or straight
Full house:
13 different ranks for three-of-a-kind
12 remaining ranks for pair
8C3=56 combinations for three-of-a-kind

Poor Man's Poker Rules Card Game


8C2=28 combinations for pair
244608 different full housesPoker
Unflushed straight:
10 different high cards for a straight

Poor Man's Poker Rules Against


8 ways of getting each card in the straight
8
8
8
8
327680 different straights, including straight flushes
Subtract 1172 straight flushes
326508 different unflushed straights
Three of a kind:
13 different ranks for three-of-a-kind
12C2=66 combinations for ranks of extra cards
8C3=56 combinations for three-of-a-kind
8 different cards for fourth card
8 different cards for fifth card
3075072 different threes-of-a-kind
Unflushed two pair:
13C2=78 combinations of ranks for pairs
11 different ranks for fifth card
8C2=28 combinations for first pair
8C2=28 combinations for second pair
8 different cards of rank for remaining card
5381376 different hands with two pair
Subtract 6884 different flushes with two pair
5374492 different unflushed hands with two pair
Unflushed pair:
13 different ranks for pair
12C3=220 combinations of ranks for extra cards
8C2=28 combinations for pair
8 different cards for each remaining extra card
8
8
41000960 different hands with one pair
Subtract 91520 different flushes with one pair
40909440 different unflushed hands with one pair
High card:
13C5=1287 combinations of ranks with no matches
8 ways of getting each card
8
8
8
8
42172416 different hands that do not contain a pair, three-of-a-kind, four-of-a-kind, or five-of-a-kind
Subtract 327680 different straights (including straight flushes)
Subtract 163566 different flushes with no pairs (not including straight flushes)
41681170 hands that contain no other hand
DJTeddyBear

I was very bored today.

I'll say! This reminds me of some of the stuff that floats around the internet. It's entertaining, but always leaves me thinking 'Somebody has a lot of free time.'
Quote: curtmack

i.e. does having a suited pair make it better?

Yes.
It's no different than the suited five of a kind in five deck poker that you mentioned.
Similarly, many Black Jack side bets pay X for specific cards, but pay more if they are suited.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
curtmack
Quote: curtmack

i.e. does having a suited pair make it better?

Yes.
It's no different than the suited five of a kind in five deck poker that you mentioned.
Similarly, many Black Jack side bets pay X for specific cards, but pay more if they are suited.
Well, the flushed five of a kind is a special case: it's a flush, and it's five of a kind. Same with a straight flush (or for that matter, a Royal) in normal poker. You certainly could say that suited pairs are better, but keep in mind that there's a difference between, say, a suited pair of aces, and a flush with a pair of aces.
JB
Administrator
I didn't check all of your figures, but I disagree with your Two Pair / Three of a Kind result:

Three of a Kind
trips ..... combin(13,1)*combin(8,3) = 728
kickers ... combin(12,2)*combin(8,1)*combin(8,1) = 4224
total ..... 728 * 4224 = 3,075,072 (this agrees with your total)
Two Pair
pairs .... combin(13,2)*combin(8,2)*combin(8,2) = 61152
kicker ... combin(11,1)*combin(8,1) = 88
total .... 61152 * 88 = 5,381,376 (this is much higher than your total)

The above Two Pair figure does not subtract the counts for suited Two Pair hands if they are deemed to be higher in rank than other Two Pair hands. Nevertheless, the figures show that Three of a Kind is still a better-ranking hand than Two Pair.
curtmack

I didn't check all of your figures, but I disagree with your Two Pair / Three of a Kind result:

Three of a Kind
trips ..... combin(13,1)*combin(8,3) = 728
kickers ... combin(12,2)*combin(8,1)*combin(8,1) = 4224
total ..... 728 * 4224 = 3,075,072 (this agrees with your total)
Two Pair
pairs .... combin(13,2)*combin(8,2)*combin(8,2) = 61152
kicker ... combin(11,1)*combin(8,1) = 88
total .... 61152 * 88 = 5,381,376 (this is much higher than your total)

The above Two Pair figure does not subtract the counts for suited Two Pair hands if they are deemed to be higher in rank than other Two Pair hands. Nevertheless, the figures show that Three of a Kind is still a better-ranking hand than Two Pair.


Yeah, that looks right. I'm not sure where my mistake was, but it seems to be in punching numbers into my calculator. How I made the exact same mistake more than once is a bit weird, but whatever. I'll change it.
JB
Administrator

Yeah, that looks right. I'm not sure where my mistake was, but it seems to be in punching numbers into my calculator. How I made the exact same mistake more than once is a bit weird, but whatever. I'll change it.


I think you missed the last factor of 8, which corresponds to the suit of the kicker. You listed it, but forgot to include it in the calculation.Wizard
Administrator
Thanks for this post from:
I have a table for poker combinations with 1 to 8 decks here. Scroll down to 'Multi-Deck Probabilities.'
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Ibeatyouraces
deleted
Zcore13
The Casino I work at is getting a 6 deck Texas Hold'Em table game next month. 5 of a kind suited is the best hand. It's called Texas Shootout. It's reviewed on the Wizard of Odds site and looks pretty cool.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
DJTeddyBear

The Casino I work at is getting a 6 deck Texas Hold'Em table game next month. 5 of a kind suited is the best hand. It's called Texas Shootout. It's reviewed on the Wizard of Odds site and looks pretty cool.

Here's the Wiz's page on it: http://wizardofodds.com/texasshootout
Looks kinda interesting.
Where do you work?
On a side note: Would that be advertising? Nah. I'd bet that the Wiz wouldn't want you to mention your casino in every post, but since this is tied to the thread's topic, I doubt he'd mind a quick plug.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
“You must not
לֹא־(lō-)
Adverb - Negative particle
Strong's Hebrew 3808: Not, no
pervert
תַעֲשׂ֥וּ(ṯa·‘ă·śū)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 6213: To do, make
justice;
בַּמִּשְׁפָּ֔ט(bam·miš·pāṭ)
Preposition-b, Article Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 4941: A verdict, a sentence, formal decree, divine law, penalty, justice, privilege, style
you must not
לֹא־(lō-)
Adverb - Negative particle
Strong's Hebrew 3808: Not, no
show partiality
תִשָּׂ֣א(ṯiś·śā)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5375: To lift, carry, take
to the poor
דָ֔ל(ḏāl)
Adjective - masculine singular construct
Strong's Hebrew 1800: Dangling, weak, thin
or
וְלֹ֥א(wə·lō)
Conjunctive waw Adverb - Negative particle
Strong's Hebrew 3808: Not, no
favoritism
Poor manתֶהְדַּ֖ר(ṯeh·dar)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1921: To swell up, to favor, honour, be high, proud
to the rich;
גָד֑וֹל(ḡā·ḏō·wl)
Adjective - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1419: Great, older, insolent
you are to judge
תִּשְׁפֹּ֥ט(tiš·pōṭ)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 8199: To judge, pronounce sentence, to vindicate, punish, to govern, to litigate

Poor Man's Poker Rules Board Game

your neighbor
עֲמִיתֶֽךָ׃(‘ă·mî·ṯe·ḵā)
Noun - masculine singular construct second person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5997: Companionship, a comrade, kindred man
fairly.

Poor Man's Poker Rules How To Play

בְּצֶ֖דֶק(bə·ṣe·ḏeq)
Preposition-b Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 6664: The right, equity, prosperity
(15) Do no unrighteousness in judgment.--That is, the judges are not to abuse the authority vested in them by virtue of their office, by administering what ought to be justice in an arbitrary manner.

Thou shalt not respect the person of the poor.--The general statement in the preceding clause is here more minutely defined. The consideration for the infirm enjoined in Leviticus 19:14 is not to influence the decision of the judge, who is to administer justice, even if the poor is thereby reduced to greater poverty, and though the rich party to the suit may benevolently desire a verdict against himself to save the needy (Exodus 23:3). The authorities during the second Temple illustrate it as follows:--'If the rich man should say I am by law obliged to provide for the poor, I will therefore let him win the suit, and he will thus have his wants supplied without being subjected to the humiliation of receiving alms; for this reason it is said thou shalt not respect the person of the poor.'

Nor honour the person of the mighty.--Jewish juries, in their extreme desire to be impartial, have gone so far as to urge, that whilst the case between a rich man and a poor is being tried, they should both be dressed alike, both alike should either stand or sit, both should have the same right of speech, and both should be addressed by the judge in the same courteous manner. 'If ye have respect to persons,' says the Apostle, in allusion to this passage, 'ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors' (James 2:9, with Leviticus 19:2-4).

Verse 15. - Justice is to be done to all. The less danger of respecting the person of the poor has to be guarded against, as well as the greater and more obvious peril of honouring the person of the mighty. The scales of Justice must be held even and her eyes bandaged, that she may not prefer one appellant to another on any ground except that of merit and demerit. 'If ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors' (James 2:9). DeferFaceFairlyFavoritismFavourFellowGreatHonorHonourInjusticeJudgeJudgingJudgmentJusticeLowlyMightyNeighborNeighbourPartialPartialityPerversityPervertPoorPositionRespectRighteousnessShowThoughtUnrighteousnessWrong
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Alphabetical: are be but defer Do fairly favoritism great in injustice judge judgment justice neighbor no nor not or partial partiality pervert poor shall show the to You your
OT Law: Leviticus 19:15 You shall do no injustice in judgment: (Le Lv Lev.) Christian Bible Study Resources, Dictionary, Concordance and Search Tools